Curse

Abedeus · Dec 02, 2007, 08:55 AM // 08:55

LoD is IMO even better skill. 2 LoD monks can easily (in PvE, using Holy Haste) heal up whole team... Or one HH LoD and one protection monk, because Spirit Bond/Prot Spirit is useful in PvE.

If someone thinks it's bad (IN PVE, REMEMBER IT'S ABOUT PVE!), then he fails. LoD > WoH.

Mr Pink57 · Dec 02, 2007, 11:16 AM // 11:16

[QUOTE

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaigoda

There, corrected. I've never seen mass bleeding,
and only mass poison in the Maguuma Jungle. Disease is extremely
rare to find, and even then it's usually hardly a threat (4 degen isn't
much). And again, environment effects are very uncommon, the only
one I can think of right now is miasma (which is a right pain when
you're a lower lever); of course, miasma's only on the pre island, which
is impossible to cap LoD on (without a Elite Tome). And anyway, if your
team is taking less and 50 health every 7 seconds, you probly don't
even need a monk.

Ill name a few:

Entire kurz side filled with disease
Shards of Orr mass conditions
Temple of the Damned
Slavers - Forge
Burning Forest EOTN
DoA HM
Wurms hexes in frostmaw
Anything with Deep Freeze (Whiteout)

pink

Tyla · Dec 02, 2007, 04:41 PM // 16:41

why not just go with Healer's Boon+Heal Party?
its a better heal than LoD used to be:P
least from what i've seen

their's still LoD+Holy Haste,however.

Ashe. · Dec 02, 2007, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Moral of the story....DON'T PUG.

95% of pugs are terrible at this game, they don't understand the idea of following strategy and teamwork. They WILL run off, they WILL die, and they WILL blame it on you.

Divine Xan · Dec 02, 2007, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Hmm normal mode.. err just run healers boon and out heal everything? Its only NM... Healer boon + prot monks works nicely in NM.

and in GoM no point using LoD... maybe thats why, prot beats that mission, spirit bond, protective spirit, shield of absorption.. probs best you run ZB tbh, works for me doing that mission.

Also yh.. dont pug or lead the pug yourself :P

Kwan Xi · Dec 03, 2007, 05:04 AM // 05:04

I think LoD is ok in PvE they kinda nerfed it but if you have Holy Haste on it shouldn't be too much of a problem, I like using it when I'm in a full group of eight and since they removed the below 80% health condition I find it more easier to spam it often

OS T · Dec 03, 2007, 07:54 AM // 07:54

thats true Kwan,I think in 1way LOD is better now,as stated above you can heal 80hp below 80%.with holy haste and lod you can easly spam it,I would suggest bringing gole and hp too for emergency healing..so my conclusion..lod is still good skill,in fact...even better elite in my opinion.

Kwan Xi · Dec 03, 2007, 08:32 AM // 08:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashe.

Moral of the story....DON'T PUG.

95% of pugs are terrible at this game, they don't understand the idea of following strategy and teamwork. They WILL run off, they WILL die, and they WILL blame it on you.

The Unfortunate side-effect of Heros

because you can now Hero/Hench the more experienced players do this rather then take the time to teach the newbies and noobs not to suck so much.

I wanted to PUG Eye of the North with my Monk and I can't find groups even forming anymore!!!!!

wetsparks · Dec 03, 2007, 09:31 AM // 09:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I was doing The Gates of Madness with my second monk.I got in a group showed them my bar they liked it after I saw the Necros bar with no res, crippling aungish with an SoC and a few other necro skills.The group cosisted of 1 Ele2 Necros2 or 3 Derv 1W/R and my self with Dunk.I thought this might not go so good when I saw the Necros bar and when we got into mission I saw the W/R had a pet.

It all stated to go bad as soon as we all decided to take on Shiro as the Dervs and Warrior were going down ad when they were they all started to tell me to res or Dunk.There was one who said don't use PoS on me res I refused and didn't let Dunk as he only had res chant and had to flagged out of harms way.In the end it didn't turn out all that well they all left and I got the blame for it all and in the mission outpost they all said LoD is a bad skill as I knew from what Ensign said it is still good for PvE.

I knew in way from the Necro having a Mesmer elite and the Warrior with pet that this wasn't going to go down well along with the FDS then 2 Dervs.

I wanted to get back to the original post here. first off, gate of madness isn't a cake walk with a pug, and to try to monk a pug with that many mele (especially soft mele that are dervishes) is trouble waiting to happen. even though the necro's build sounds questionable, it was probably enough to get by in an above average group. what I'm saying is it sounds like your group was destined to fail. Personally I would have ran the moment I saw what the group was like, live to fight another day.

The warrior/ranger with a pet is not a big deal really. When I went through with my paragon I had a pet with me and did fine until our warrior over agroed. Couple skill changes later (pet out, chants in) and a few choice words to the warrior we got through.

arcady · Dec 03, 2007, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kwan Xi

I wanted to PUG Eye of the North with my Monk and I can't find groups even forming anymore!!!!!

Eye of the North is hard to PUG. Where do you go?

So many of the missions have oddball entry points and continue on over several zones that it is very hard to get a PUG going for them. That expansion is more anti-social to the GW community than Nightfall's introduction of heroes was.

Age · Dec 04, 2007, 09:23 PM // 21:23

I have given this much thought and it was on the the leaders part to lead the mission and I agree with wetsparks Gates of Madness is not cake walk.I was doing this on my second Monk on my second account as my main Monk beat it already last year or just after.I didn't even know if anyone was wearing Superior rune or not possibly maybe.

I saw the Warrior use endure pain possibly as a self heal with no Lions Comfort or healing sig.I did this easy with my Warrior and yes having 2 Derv is not good a Paragon would of been nice but I wasn't the leader this only goes to show the lack there of on their part.I beat and got all bonuses in the Fire Island missions even beat RoF 10 times as I was waiting for the boss to spawn with SoD.I lead the Hells Precipe(sp) mission and got bonus on that.

It cleary is me and not the skill LoD.you can use Holy Haste with Lod and works great but if you are casting other enchants it get canceled.It would seem to me that the better players are else where.These players weren't prepared for this mission.It is ok to have a pet but you don't need to bring charm animal with you being a Warrior best be W/Mo for mending touch and rebirth.What really got to me is when they blamed me instead of the leader who was an Ele and I didn't see them doing all that much damage.

The only reason I though LoD would be good is when walking around all the shrines to keep the party healed up.

To arcady yes English is my first language and it is is part of my background I have just been out of school longer.

wetsparks · Dec 04, 2007, 09:40 PM // 21:40

getting blamed is part of being a monk unfortunately, people think that monks are super powerful and that they can do whatever and the monk will cover them. just got to let it go, find a different group and know that no matter what they say, they still suck while you, hopefully, don't.

Age · Dec 04, 2007, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Yeap they think we are Godlike.

enter_the_zone · Dec 05, 2007, 06:01 AM // 06:01

Just a thought, don't PUG, at least in NM. Saying you are too impatient to hero/hench is ironic when not doing so means you have to redo missions multiple times. I got seriously disillusioned with PUGs when I started going for protector titles.

Recent relenting on this to help a guildy resulted in a PUG-necro asking "What is spinal shivers?". This PUG was for the Dragon's Lair bonus...

arcady · Dec 05, 2007, 07:37 PM // 19:37

-Shrug-

I PUG NM all the time. My monk is 2 missions shy of protector (needs bonus on Gint and Dunes of Despair). I don't get all the anti-PUG feelings as I keep having positive PUG experiences. Sometimes PUGs are bad, but usually they are good.

Charm Animal note: You need to bring that skill if you want to bring your pet. The real question is whether or not you should be bringing your pet. I love having my pet on my ranger when I solo quests, and I have been getting pets for my ranger heroes - but are they really effective? Pets without a pet build are only mildly useful as tanks or dps - they get killed easily and don't do all that much damage. The do provide the benefit of doing that damage without you having to click anything, but would you DPS be higher if you put those two skill slots to something else?

As far as using LoD, I'd say it really comes down to a question of putting either:
LoD + some spike heal
WoH + Heal Party

In most zones the second option will be better. You will be doing most of your heals as anti-spiking against single victims, and won't need party wide relief all that often. LoD is only going to be more important than WoH in areas where you will face constant party wide pressure.

That's true of many parts of Istan, with the Skale Blighters - but you are not likely to have an elite at the level you will be there (but Putting LoD on Dunkoro makes sense there). It's rarer in late game areas, but in the zones where it happens it hits hard, so hard that you're going to need more than just LoD, you're going to need very spammable hex and condition removal.

Age · Dec 06, 2007, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by enter_the_zone

Just a thought, don't PUG, at least in NM. Saying you are too impatient to hero/hench is ironic when not doing so means you have to redo missions multiple times. I got seriously disillusioned with PUGs when I started going for protector titles.

Recent relenting on this to help a guildy resulted in a PUG-necro asking "What is spinal shivers?". This PUG was for the Dragon's Lair bonus...

Yes I know what you mean but I like to think of the game as still being a cooperative game and in a PuG I am not talking to myself like I do on quests as strange as it sounds.

I did have another bad one this morning on my Necro Thank Goodness at the thirst time of The Gate of Pain mission there was a D/Mo 130 farming build that came with us he did tell us this untill in mission although a Derv was leading the group.thank goodness the Ele switched from E/Mes to /Mo for rebirth.I am beginning to despise Dervs although I have one myself.

I meant comfort animal not just charm

Grammar · Dec 06, 2007, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcady

As far as using LoD, I'd say it really comes down to a question of putting either:
LoD + Dwayna's Kiss
WoH + Heal Party

In most zones the second option will be better.

[Fix in bold, for a more definitive comparison]

As for your conclusion as to which is better, I completely disagree, assuming we're talking about NM PvE.
The upgrade from Kiss to WoH isn't nearly as great as the upgrade from Heal Party to LoD.
The extra 10e cost of Heal Party is simply unacceptable, So unacceptable, in fact, that it forces you use a second skill slot to bring Glyph of Lesser Energy to make it acceptable roughly 20% of the time (the other 80% of the time it's still unacceptible).
So for 2 skill slots you get a party heal with an energy cost that is acceptable 20% of the time.
With LoD you get a party heal with an energy cost is acceptable 100% of the time using only 1 skill slot.
The upgrade from Heal Party to LoD is simply jaw dropping.

The only way to make Heal Party a decent spell is if you sell out your bar to run Healers Boon. Well, I guess not completely sell out, you'll have a whole one slot left for Prot Spirit (yippee). As such, it's rarely a good idea save for well-constructed HM groups.

Now lets look at Kiss and WoH:
They both cost the same energy, have the same recast, and are both targeted heals that heal for a significant amount.
There are only 2 advantages to WoH:
1. WoH is self-castable
2. WoH heals for a much larger amount if the target is under 50% health.
-The first advantage isn't that big of a deal because you already have things like RoF, Dismiss, Cure Hex, SoA, etc. on your bar that are self-castable anyway. That right there (not to mention things like kiting and the second monk) should be plenty to save you should you ever find yourself taking heavy damage.
-The second advantage will, at best, occasionally save you 5e in certain situations where you can cast 1 WoH instead of 2 other spells such as RoF+Kiss. At worst, the second advantage is a complete waste because there are TWO monks in the party. If a party member is sitting at 20% health, I doubt that second monk is just going to sit there and not cast anything on him. So if the second monk casts a Kiss of his own on that target, whats the difference if you cast a Kiss or a WoH on that target? Either way, the target gets two large heals and is saved, and each monk only spent 5e.

The only use I see for WoH is on an Infuser, where the self-castability and heal size actually matter.

Rexion · Dec 06, 2007, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Age... whatever age you are, that sums it up mostly.

Your thesis can be correct, but you have to back it up with good information. Saying you used it in a PUG is not going to back you up. PUGs usually consist of the arrogant and inexperienced, pre-pubescent 11-13 year olds. So you are at about a 75% chance of dying in a PUG.

Secondly, your typing turns us off. I don't want to read "sumthing thati s lazly tiped n thught 2 b spelle dcorrectly". So I feel the need to go through your whole post and fix it just for the hell and fun of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I was doing The Gates of Madness with my second monk. I got in a group and showed them my bar. They liked at it after I saw the Necro's bar that consisted of no res, Crippling aungish with an SoC and a few other necro skills. The group cosisted of 1 Ele, 2 Necros, 2 or 3 Derv, 1W/R, and my self with Dunk (added commas).I thought this might not go so well when I saw the Necros bar. When we got into mission I saw the W/R had a pet.

It all stated to go bad when we all decided to take on Shiro. As the Dervs and Warrior were going down and when they were they all started to tell me to res or Dunk. There was one who said don't use PoS on me res (no idea what your point is here). I refused and didn't let Dunk as he only had res chant and had to flagged out of harms way. In the end it didn't turn out all that well. They all left and I got the blame for the problems. in the mission outpost they all said LoD is a bad skill even though I knew from what Ensign said it is still good for PvE.

I knew in way from the Necro having a Mesmer elite and the Warrior with a pet that this wasn't going to go down well along with the FDS then 2 Dervs.
My skill bar was set up like this:
1. LoD {E}
2. SoA
3. PoS
4. Dismiss Condition
5. RoF
6. Remove hex
7. Channeling
8. Rebirth
I am not sure if channeling was a good choice, but I still need to get the time of power drain down as I keep missing.

attributes, off the top of my head, are

10 for healing
11 in protection
10 in divine favour
6 or 9 in inspiration.

To top all this off, one Assassin invited me. He looked at my skill bar and asked what rank my guild was. I told him. "None of your business." He told me he was in a rank 22 guild and charges 50k for an invite. What a story that was as I looked and it wasn't his tag (I don't understand you point here. This story is completely random).

It would seem that LoD is, now, a bad skill in PvE. What do you all think? This was my worst bad-pug experience ever. as a leader of a guild I have no other choice, and I am too impatient to use H/H. I was doing this before my moring alarm went off and was on my first cup off coffee.

After going through your whole post, editing everything that should be. I bolded what was corrected.
In your post I:
- added periods at the end of sentences.
- fixed a lot of sentences.
- fixed some grammatical mistakes.
- added letters if necessary.
- fixed spelling.

I hope people of Guru can actually read your post now

boarderx · Dec 06, 2007, 09:30 PM // 21:30

if you wanan run LoD you have to do it a certain way now (imo). Use [skill]holy haste[/skill] and dont use other enchants, leave those to the prot monk and equp more straight heals, a hex remover, condition remover and your good to go

but you basically need to max out healing to make it really worth it so you dont get as much versitility

Age · Dec 07, 2007, 12:12 AM // 00:12

To Rexion when you get to my age and post at work with no spell checker and I am old enough to be a Parent of one of those go in pugs.I am multitasking as well when posting these.I saw Neil Armstrong walk on the Moon in 1969.